{"id":34967,"date":"2020-06-05T09:46:33","date_gmt":"2020-06-05T07:46:33","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/newimages-hub.com\/?p=34967"},"modified":"2020-06-18T09:14:51","modified_gmt":"2020-06-18T07:14:51","slug":"michel-reilhac","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/newimages-hub.com\/en\/michel-reilhac\/","title":{"rendered":"Interview with Michel Reilhac, VR creator and programmer"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

Post-lockdown, NewImages Festival keeps on shining a spotlight on its friends and partners. We strive to better understand and support all those who craft new images throughout this personal and professional journey, so we can live through this pivotal period together.<\/strong><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Michel Reilhac is the former director of the Forum des images<\/strong> (which he headed from 1992 to 2002) and of Arte Cin\u00e9ma<\/strong>. When he left the latter, in 2012, he decided to devote himself to his passion: making VR films. He is currently Director of Studies at the Venice Biennale College Cinema<\/strong> and programmer of the Venice VR section<\/strong> [1]. A fan of hybrid forms and interactive products, he contributed to the 2016 launch of the Paris Virtual Film Festival<\/strong>, which eventually became NewImages Festival<\/strong>! So we were really looking forward to hearing his views on the new tools and forms of VR, and the challenges it faces.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

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\u201cWhen we can choose the worlds we want to spend time in, and where we\u2019ll be happy, what will become of our physical identities? How will we continue to look after ourselves?<\/strong>\u201d<\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n
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\"Michel
Michel Reilhac during a VR experience<\/figcaption><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n

Where did you spend the lockdown?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I left France several years ago and I\u2019ve been living in Amsterdam for over three years now. I feel as though I\u2019ve experienced a double lockdown: here at home, physically, where it\u2019s been fine \u2013 I\u2019ve enjoyed the calm, having time to think and work on things more fully than before \u2013 and vicariously, as I kept up with the news from France. My three children are in Paris, so I also experienced it through them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

You\u2019ve told us about the physical places where you lived during the lockdown. What about the virtual places?<\/strong><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I use VR for physical exercise. I do yoga every other day, and I\u2019ve been doing a lot of Beat Saber<\/strong> [2] as well. It\u2019s amazing exercise, both physically (you\u2019re worn out when you finish) and mentally, because it takes an incredible amount of concentration! I\u2019m forcing myself to get better at it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I\u2019ve been watching a lot of fun story content too, the kind of thing that started with the Vader Immortal<\/em><\/strong> [3] series: narratives you have to take part in, solving problems and taking up challenges to keep the story moving along. I love that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

In professional terms, the Venice VR<\/strong> Festival I\u2019m currently working on will be mainly virtual. So I\u2019ve been exploring a lot of VR social platforms, comparing, testing and trying them out to decide on the configuration we\u2019ll give our own platform. I\u2019ve been spending a lot of time on that, weighing up the pros and cons.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

How has the lockdown influenced your personal projects?<\/strong><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Before the lockdown, I was spending 75% of my time travelling, and I was getting fed up of it. In a way, the lockdown happened at the right time. It forced me to work more introspectively, and ask myself: Why do I want to do this? Why do I do those things? The answers to such questions are very private and personal. They have the advantage of clarifying the reasons for our behavior.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

On the creative side \u2013 the VR films I make and the interactive and immersive experiences I create \u2013, it\u2019s allowed me to clearly see what truly matters to me. I\u2019m getting fed up of the PC, squeaky clean side of most of the current VR content. In the last few years, I\u2019ve been struck by how PC that world has become. It\u2019s as if there was a sort of charter, with content that always stays on safe ground. You always have to take the perspective of immigrants, the oppressed, etc. That\u2019s very important, and I\u2019m not saying we shouldn\u2019t do it, but it\u2019s gone too far. More and more VR creations are full of good intentions, but they have turned into a kind of moral instruction that I find tiresome. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

This led me to some moral questions about how I can contribute as a creator to a positive evolution of the world we live in \u2013 how I can find solutions without resorting to moralization. I\u2019d like to explore content that is more provocative and outrageous, and doesn\u2019t always play safe.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Can you tell us about an experience that impacted you while you were testing the VR social platforms?<\/strong><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

We were supposed to hold a VR workshop for the Biennale<\/strong> <\/em>at the beginning of March, at the very moment when Italy went into general lockdown. We had no choice but to cancel, but I decided to hold the workshop anyway. In three days, we set up a private space with VRrOOm [4],<\/strong> on the VRChat<\/strong> [5] platform, where we were able to stick to our programme and hold all the scheduled workshops, meetings and discussions virtually.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

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Venice Biennale<\/strong> VR workshop screncapture, made with<\/em> VRrOOm<\/strong> on <\/em>VR Chat<\/strong><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

The great thing was that we had fantasy avatars. We changed them nearly every day and had great fun transforming ourselves. I was a doughnut, a billiard ball with a mask, a pack of butter, a futuristic manga spaceship, I was a little country girl from a Japanese graphic novel! Despite all the fantasy, we had some very serious discussions about our projects.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

On the penultimate evening, we had a great experience. We decided to have a party, and we soon realized we could choreograph a dance using emotes (like the emojis in VRChat<\/strong>, but with the added possibility of movement). We were all doing the same dance routine, with the same avatar in VRChat<\/strong>. There were about 15 of us, and it was brilliant! <\/p>\n\n\n\n

The ability to change appearance was a lot of fun and really helped create a sense of presence, especially at the party. We had a sense of being together and sharing, it was quite different from what you feel on Zoom<\/strong> or Skype<\/strong> and it really made a strong impression on me. It was an inspirational experience that fully convinced me of the relevance of social platforms. It made me want to explore, discover and compare as many social platforms as possible.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

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Venice Biennale<\/strong> VR workshop screncapture, made with<\/em> VRrOOm<\/strong> on <\/em>VR Chat<\/strong><\/em><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\n\n

From an operational point of view, are these tools ready for organizing festivals, and for more creative purposes?<\/strong><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

We now have the tools to set up work sessions, viewing sessions and online events, but we\u2019re still in the early stages. Things are changing really fast. It\u2019s a period of very rapid progress, with tools becoming obsolete in a month or two. That makes platform-design decision-making rather complex for festivals…<\/p>\n\n\n\n

There are two areas that I find really interesting. The first is avatar design. Meetings and interpersonal interactions are as important as the possibility, for remote audiences, of watching 360 videos and 6DOF works. It\u2019s essential for participants to have avatars that are as comfortable and realistic as possible. There are plenty of prototypes and plenty of things happening, but we\u2019re still a long way from \u201cdigital twins\u201d \u2013 true digital double of ourselves.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I\u2019m also really interested in the creative side of these platforms \u2013 how we meet up, represented by avatars, with remote participants but also with people who might be in the same physical space as us, at the same time. These various kinds of presence have a huge creative potential, and it\u2019s an area I\u2019d really like to explore<\/p>\n\n\n\n

In terms of creativity, what would you ideally like to have on these platforms?<\/strong><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

It won\u2019t happen straight away but I would love to be able to \u201cmaximize\u201d the sensory VR experience and create the impression that it\u2019s for real, adding a haptic dimension, with touch and physical sensation, to the visual and audio aspects.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

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Michel Reilhac \u00a9 DR<\/figcaption><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n

In sensory terms, VR isn\u2019t a completely credible physical experience yet. Yet it allows you to do things that are absolutely impossible in the physical world: to fly, stay under water, change your physical appearance, move around and travel in purely imaginary environments\u2026 I dream of the day when we can have these amazing experiences with a far greater range of sensory experience \u2013 the most advanced possible sensory duplication of the real world, with the possibility of some extra-real experiences. I can\u2019t wait to be ten years from now!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Because of the COVID-19 pandemic, our former everyday activities \u2013 going to work, meeting people, organizing festivals \u2013 have migrated to virtual platforms. These are revolutionary times for VR, changing from a dream-like, fantasy world into a museum, a carbon copy of past reality, are they not?<\/strong><\/strong><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I don\u2019t think it\u2019s a revolution for VR \u2013 it\u2019s just an option. VR can, and will, be used in a lot of very different situations. All those things will be possible: trying to create a parallel world where you can do completely imaginary things or, on the contrary, reproducing a world that\u2019s as true as possible to past and present reality. If I\u2019m really nostalgic about my childhood and I want to rebuild my childhood home or holiday place and recreate my cousins and friends, I can do it \u2013 it\u2019s just one option among many others. I could just as easily build a place I see in a recurring dream that I really want to recreate.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

If there is<\/em> a revolution, it\u2019s essentially centered on the concept of reality, which has become optional. It\u2019s no longer regarded as something final. If I\u2019m not happy in my current physical reality, I can spend a lot of time in virtual realities where I\u2019ll feel far more alive. Reality will become a layer cake, and I\u2019ll be able to browse it from the objective level of my physical reality. This physical reality has a definite weight, it\u2019s where I exist and survive, where I have to eat, drink and sleep. But on a psychological, imaginary and emotional level, other realities will begin to weigh far more. I\u2019ll find myself increasingly able to choose the reality in which I want to spend my time. During the course of the same day, I\u2019ll be able to move into different realities involving an increasingly deep and complex level of experience.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Identity is also being called into question. When I can choose the realities in which I spend my time, I can also choose the identity I\u2019ll have in those different worlds. If I want, I can have a single identity that I\u2019ll take from one world to another, and a single avatar to represent me in all the virtual layers I live in; or I can have a different identity for each world. So I\u2019ll be able to free myself of the fatalistic aspect of all my determining physical factors: gender, age, race… Once I can anticipate this data, I can be anyone at all, whoever I want to be. It\u2019s very powerful, but very disturbing as well. How will we cope with these many-layered realities and identities? These questions aren\u2019t limited to individual experience, they have a collective dimension. This will become a major psychological issue in the coming years.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Are the most physical aspects of current VR production, such as installations, likely to disappear?<\/strong><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

That will be a practical, health-related issue for a while: how can we be 100% sure that we\u2019re not infecting one another? Assuming that problem can be solved, there will be permanent VR venues with complex installations, sometimes with reactive performers, and machineries and devices that can reproduce sensations and physical movements.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

There\u2019s a very interesting parallel with the Forum des images.<\/strong> When I became director, in 1992, Internet didn\u2019t exist. I told everyone, \u201cWe have to be the first with an Internet presence! Let\u2019s open a place equipped with computers where people can access them.\u201d So we opened the very first Internet caf\u00e9 in Paris. It was a great success for two and a half, maybe three years, and then we closed it down. The caf\u00e9 no longer served a purpose \u2013 people had their own computers and Internet subscriptions and they no longer needed a public place where they could write emails and browse the Net.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

A lot of public VR arcades will suffer the same fate. People will have their own headsets and there won\u2019t be the same need for public places \u2013 except for really spectacular venues for huge and complex installations and performing arts projects.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The global economy has been hard hit by the pandemic. In this context, what do you think is on the horizon for VR?<\/strong><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

In the field that isn\u2019t ours \u2013 business, global industrial and scientific creation \u2013 VR will skyrocket (it\u2019s already the case) as a remote working tool. Companies are realizing that it\u2019s profitable. It\u2019s perfectly logical, legitimate and sensible to get equipped so that global teams work together. VR will continue to grow: the crisis has demonstrated its economic efficiency and timeliness.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

On the social level \u2013 the social media in particular \u2013, people are realizing that VR is a better tool than, say, Zoom<\/strong>. It brings us together in a closer, more present and intimate way. You can do more together in a VR world. People working in fashion held an impressive number of virtual shows during the Fashion Week<\/strong>! Speaking of which, the house of Saint Laurent<\/strong> announced it was breaking free from the official fashion week calendar. Systems are going to be dismantled to make way for more flexible and economical practices that are better suited to the rhythm of businesses.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

In our creative, artistic field, this will take longer. For now, the economy of our sector depends essentially on public venues and very little on individual user platforms. There will definitely be a reduction in funding, as there\u2019s no real market for our products yet. A distribution market for artistic products has yet to be created, with platforms whose content is curated \u2013 an area where festivals can play a vital role! <\/p>\n\n\n\n

You\u2019ve done a lot of work on the importance of design for presence in VR [6]<\/strong>. If you had to invent a story based on the current pandemic, what kind of presence would you imagine for the viewer?<\/strong><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

It would be interesting to think about the type of presence you\u2019d get if you told a story from the point of view of the virus \u2013 if we were the virus ourselves. If I was the virus, it would be fun to see how I\u2019d personify it \u2013 What intentions would I attribute to it? Where would it come from? \u2013 and how I would imagine a context, an origin where it wasn\u2019t necessarily a determining agent. It would obviously be totally different if the virus was deliberately created by humans, for whatever reason… In that case, it would be interesting to think about whether I would materialize.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

To see the game through, it would be fun to write a story in which the viewer is the virus. It would be materialized and would interact with humans on a microscopic level, but also by combining with others to access perception on the human level. You could play with a real viewpoint, with humans unable to see the virus at first, and then gradually managing to discern it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

<\/p>\n\n\n\n

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schema extracted from design for presence in VR<\/strong><\/strong> Michel Reilhac<\/em><\/em>‘s research \u00a9 Michel Reilhac<\/em><\/figcaption><\/figure><\/div>\n\n\n\n

To see the game through, it would be fun to write a story in which the viewer is the virus. It would be materialized and would interact with humans on a microscopic level, but also by combining with others to access perception on the human level. You could play with a real viewpoint, with humans unable to see the virus at first, and then gradually managing to discern it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

What message do you have for the VR community?<\/strong><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

All of us who are exploring VR as a new medium have a responsibility, exacerbated by the COVID-19 crisis, perhaps more than other artists. It\u2019s up to us to invent not only a new language and new technologies, but a purpose. Unlike many other art forms that aim to represent the world, our field, as an art and a language, acts as a copy of the world, in a sense. This experience of the world will become increasingly complete and realistic, even in totally imaginary environments.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

When we can choose the worlds we want to spend time in, and where we\u2019ll be happy, what will become of our physical identities? How will we continue to look after ourselves?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

We need to be aware of these incredibly fascinating issues \u2013 incredible in terms of creativity, but potentially disturbing as well. Our creative challenge is to consider this new way of experiencing the world as a coalition of all our possible identities, all our possible worlds to be used for harmony and enrichment, rather than as a means of escape.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

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NOTES & HYPERLINKS<\/strong>
[1] more information about Venice Biennale<\/strong><\/strong> VR : Venice VR<\/strong> section <\/strong><\/strong>available on line here<\/a>
[2] VR game Beat Saber<\/strong> is available on line here<\/a>
[3] VR show Vader Immortal<\/em><\/strong> is available on line here<\/a>
[4] VRrOOm<\/strong><\/strong> platform is available on line here<\/a>
[5] VR Chat<\/strong><\/strong><\/strong> platform is available on line here<\/a>
[6] Michel Reilhac: Designing Presence in Immersive Reality<\/em><\/strong> (2018) conference is available on line here<\/a>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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